Circular Economy and Decarbonisation

Transcript

Nina Gbor

Hello everyone. Thank you so much for joining us today. Apologies for the technical issues, good old zoom and Wi-Fi. Hopefully you will be able to see me and see my photo even though the video is frozen. So before we get started, I officially would like to acknowledge the. Radical people of the Eora nation, the traditional custodians of the land in which I reside and pay my respects to the elders both past and present. Sovereignty was never seeded. This always was and always will be Aboriginal. And. So the days and times of our webinars at the Australia Institute always vary, so please visit ourwebsite@australiainstitute.org dot AU for all details of upcoming webinars. So hello and welcome and apologies again for the slow start. We thank you so much for your patience. I'm Nina Gabor, the director of the circular economy and waste program at the Australia Institute. So we're so excited to have on our webinar today, Planet Arks. Dr. Nicole Garofano on the circular economy and decarbonization. Now you're absolutely welcome. So just a few guidelines for our webinar to make sure it all goes splendidly if you hover over the bottom of the screen, you should be able to see the Q&A function where you can ask questions to Nicole and also up vote, vote questions and make comments. My colleague Vivian is moderating the questions. We'll do our best.

Nicole Garofano

That's been it.

Nina Gbor

To answer as many of them as possible, but you know we won't be able to get through to all the questions today unfortunately, because we only have just about an hour, so. We ask that you please keep things civil in the comments. Please keep it short and keep it sweet. Otherwise, unfortunately, we might have to boot you from this webinar and we hate doing that because we absolutely love our community, so we'll finish this webinar sort of around 12:00 PM this discussion is being recorded. And will be posted on our website and YouTube channel. Now we before we start talking to Nicole, I'm just going to speak about this topic just a little bit. So circular economy decarbonization you know, while the circular economy is about principles that design materials, so there's no waste. It focuses on eliminating waste and pollution. Keeping products and materials in circulation at their highest value and finally regenerating nature so decarbonization, on the other hand, looks at, you know, all the measures to reduce carbon footprint by minimizing or removing the output of greenhouse gas emissions. CO2 and methane into the atmosphere. Now when you combine these two principles. Decarbonization the reduction of carbon emissions and the circular economy, the reuse and regeneration of materials. By design, you get 2 powerful concepts that, when put together, create a potent force to combat climate change and drive sustainable development. Now, why is this crucial? Because the circular economy. Can cut greenhouse gas emissions. How? By adopting the three principles of the circular economy in the product, services and systems we design, we can also start to tackle the remaining 45% of emissions associated with industry, agriculture and land use. So by eliminating waste and pollution, for example, we reduce greenhouse gas emissions across the value chain. By circulating products and materials, we retain their embodied energy. By regenerating nature, we suppress their carbon in soil and products now in buildings and construction, for example, by eliminating waste sharing buildings more often, you know, sharing buildings more often by reusing recycling construction materials, we can reduce the emissions from construction. Materials, possibly by up to 38% by the year 2050. Now Australia's built environment is driven by population and economic growth and climate change. The increasing need for space and buildings is actually increasing traffic congestion, consumption which affects. Livability, environmental efficiency of the built environment and this puts a lot of pressure on the sector. So our guest today, Doctor Nicole Garofano, will discuss circular design of the built environment that can reduce some of these pressures as well as reduce emissions. Nicole will also discuss how other sectors and products. And also improve their practices to achieve net zero. We'll look at planet Arc and what they have planned on their agenda to support Australians, businesses, organizations, communities in their circularity efforts this year. Nicole, thank you again for being with us today and we apologize for the technical issues.

Nicole Garofano

My pleasure. Thanks for inviting me, Nina. I I think.

Speaker

You've.

Nicole Garofano

Absolutely just nailed everything that we're talking about today. And I'll be like. I will, I will add a few pop pepper in a few examples, but exactly what you said is, is the topic of the day. So I'm excited to be here.

Nina Gbor

Thank you so much. That's fantastic. So why don't you start off by telling us about Planet Ark, what you've achieved and what your purpose is?

Speaker

You.

Nicole Garofano

So many people may be familiar with planted ark. Planet Ark was founded in 1992 and it was at a time when curbside recycling was kind of limited and there was only one person who was known as an environmental manager. And the way that we used this term today. So there's a very different time and space, but. That society did see a need to want to do more for the environment. It was also at the time where the. The Rio Summit was happening. Agenda 21 was being released, so it was very much bringing to the fore this this conversation around. We need to protect our environment. But since that time planet Earth has become one of Australia's leading environmental behaviour change organisations and we've really been focusing on providing opportunities for positive environmental action. Businesses in the audience may be familiar with business recycling, which is a an online database, particularly for small or medium businesses looking for solutions for recycling options. And of course, none of our work happens without support, and in that particular instance, the NSW EPA provides financial support for business recycling. But we also have recycling near you, which is a much broader anyone. It's actually offered by post code. So one can enter their post code and enter the product that one is looking to. On and they can find solutions in their local area, so recycling in you is a valuable tool. But what I lead is the Australian circular economy hub, which is another of planet arts programs. We've got about eight, I think in total, the Australian circular economy hub or the ace. Hub. We have a small dedicated. Team to really delivering Australia's national reference platform for circular economy knowledge and collaborate. Location and we collaborate across organizations with the Asub public, private, not-for-profit. Academia, research. We have a range of services. The Asub portal is one that everybody can join. It's kind of like LinkedIn, but for circular economy got 2000 plus members and Chelsea McLean, our Community coordinator does a fantastic job. Engaging folks there, we have metric we have working groups, metrics and procurement. We have a wonderful Advisory Board, all of whom contribute volunteer. Time and of course, we are super honored to be working with organizations such as the Australia Institute to really accelerate the interest, the knowledge and also the practice towards a more circular economy in Australia. So thanks for having us.

Nina Gbor

You're absolutely welcome. Thank you again for joining us. We are very excited by the work. That you do and. How you uplift the community with circular. Ideas and activities and encourage you know neighborhoods and and you know, schools and other organizations in engaging in circularity efforts.

Nicole Garofano

And I think I think.

Speaker

So.

Nicole Garofano

The important thing to note is when we reflect Planet Arts actually been working in the circular economy space for the whole of its 30. For years, you.

Nina Gbor

Know the third.

Nicole Garofano

The third principle regenerating natural systems, we connect with that through National Tree Day and our seedling bank program. So in fact we probably didn't call it circular economy back then, but over time we realised that we've actually been supporting initiatives in a circular economy throughout the life of planet Ark. So it's fantastic to see.

Nina Gbor

You know it's. Quite impressive. You're ahead of your time. The circular code is relatively newer principle compared to the sustainability discourse, so it's it's it's pretty phenomenal that you were looking at regeneration before it became the. Yes.

Speaker

But.

Nina Gbor

You know the big conversation that it is today in spaces of climate and decarbonization, the circular economy, why is language or using the right wording such a critical factor? Because you and I have had this conversation before, and you've really emphasized the right words. And I've always wondered why that's so important.

Nicole Garofano

Yeah. I don't know it it could be. I'm a bit of a stickler for getting a good definition in, because at the end of the day language is critically important if we're all working off of different definitions and different perspectives, which of course everybody has, but there does need to be harmonization and consistency in the way we approach things. We're living in a in a. In a finite cyclical system with finite resources, we've actually put the system out of balance because of, you know, a range of different issues. We're we're extracting materials at an unsustainable rate, more than 100 billion tonnes a year globally. And so we need to make sure that as we move forward, we've got we, we don't have long. You know this is an urgent topic. We need to be able to agree, agree on what is the language that we're using and particularly when it comes to the climate decarbonisation discussion, I'll put those two together and circular economy. People often see circular economy, particularly those working in business circular economy, as this is another thing we've got to go and measure. Now you know, it's another thing to, you know, measure as part of our ESG. But what people miss and something that you said in your opening is that circular economy business models are actually tools. To achieve decarbonization outcomes and I think just having that understanding and when you're looking at daily practice and how does that? Engage with circular business. Models I think that is the piece around consistency and and we see this in a number of different areas. You know we. We tend to align with the Ellen MacArthur Foundation principles, which you introduced earlier.

Speaker

MHM.

Nicole Garofano

My favorite focus area is on design because we know that if if we don't design things from the very start, 80% of an environmental impact of a product product could be a building, a car piece of textile in a whole range. Of different products. But 80% is the of the environmental impact is determined. In the design stage. So if we don't agree, what is good design and the language on good design that can adopt circular principles, then we're not actually going. To be able. To achieve the decarbonisation outcomes that everyone's so busy working towards.

Nina Gbor

Right. OK. I love that because I've come across many. Businesses and organization. That just want to throw their hands up when they hear circular economy because it just feels like another thing. And this is part of the reason why we're having this conversation today to show that it works hand in hand, not separately.

Speaker

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Nicole Garofano

I know she's great as she also mentioned earlier about the 55205545, there was a study done by the Ellen MacArthur Foundation that that provided us with those numbers. Yeah, and we can do easy, relatively easy. Easily that we can address 55% of global emissions, by the way we use our energy, consumer energy for buildings and transport. So if tomorrow we all switched over to renewables, which of course won't happen tomorrow, but if we all switched over 55% of emissions done, we've got that sorted, but it's this 45%.

Nina Gbor

Sure.

Nicole Garofano

Place where the emissions are sitting in complex value chains and complex systems around that are embedded in the way we use our land. The way we produce our goods. So it's it's really that is where the gold can be found in terms of not only just looking at your. That your value chain or your supply chain because now you've been told you've got to do something with Scope 3 emissions actually at the same time, let's look at how we can do this differently. Are there circular business models that can be adopted to engage our stakeholders and our suppliers differently to achieve the carbonization outcomes so.

Nina Gbor

Sure.

Nicole Garofano

The language in summary, the language is critical in order. For us to. Agree on our North Star, our future Decarbonized future and the ways in which we can. Get there so.

Speaker

Yeah.

Nina Gbor

That makes sense. So. What are a few specific sectors and products that use circular business models to reach their decarbonation outcomes, and how do they hit those targets?

Nicole Garofano

Yeah, it's. I mean, the circular business models are another one that's there are different words, language descriptors for secular business models. But there is one one set of five that are tend to be sort of an easy go to and these are used by Accenture, the OECD and a range of other organizations. And these include circular supplies, which is essentially renewable, recoverable sources of materials that can be used as inputs to new products, product as a service. And I'll come back to that shortly. Product life extension, fairly self-explanatory, sharing platforms and resource recovery and so resource recovery is is where recycling. It's and and just a little quick point on the language thing as well. If all we think. Of with circular. Economy is recycling. We're actually missing out on a. Really, you know, grand set of opportunities that we can do a lot better with what we're designing from the very get go. So some examples. I mean I think any industry actually can adopt these principle, these business models. It's just depending on how you examine your, your your value chain. The three that come to mind for us are built environment as as you mentioned. But we've also. Got textiles, we've got and textiles can be everything from sheets and towels and surgical gowns to clothing. I know you're one of your passions in life is around clothing and and fashion. You know, how do we get smart around doing that as well packaging my my PHD's in packaging. There are lots of opportunities to reduce emissions. And one quick thing that I I think is interesting and we'll come to some built environment examples shortly, but. People often think about the sort of quite external. Emission generators. You know one one that comes to mind is flight aviation transport. You know the. Emissions from aviation transport is about 3% now you think? Ohh. I've gotta cut down on my flights because you know which we do. We need to be conscious of where we're flying and and also what class of travel we're flying in. But guess what? The emissions from organics going to landfill is also about 3%. So we can actually make some really significant shifts in the way that we engage with food, either as a food service organization or a business or even our food at home. There is actually more greenhouse gas emissions in the production of food than what there is in the packaging alone. For example, so if we're wasting products, then we're actually. Not only wasting the the physical inputs, the water, the land use, etcetera, but we're also wasting the invested carbon that has gone into those the creation of those products. So I think I think that that that applies to anything and I think it really comes down to this message of it's about being efficient.

Speaker

Mm-hmm.

Nina Gbor

Precisely.

Nicole Garofano

So in all, all the sectors that I just mentioned and many others, automotive as well is another big one.

Speaker

M.

Nicole Garofano

It's about being efficient with not just the materials that we consume, but efficient with the carbon that is contained and embodied or embedded. In those in those products that we're using, so how can we get better use out of them in the first instance or maybe we don't need them at all? You know, do we need to produce those products in the first instance? Can we use pre love? And then how can we make sure that that the longevity of those of that investment in those emissions is actually extended and and you know, be used more efficiently across the life cycle?

Nina Gbor

Sure. So looking at the built environment in other countries, what exemplary models have you found that we can use in Australia for NET 0 results? And in addition to that, I was also wondering. You know why you chose the built environment as as a focus sector this year? Is it because of the biggest or most unregulated sectors when it comes to waste?

Nicole Garofano

I think what we found so if we customise back a couple of years, we had the privilege and the pleasure of of working with the diplomatic missions of the Netherlands and RIT University to host Professor Jacqueline Cramer, who is a global expert on circular economy from the Netherlands. She's been a a minister of government. She's worked with industry. Is also an academic. And she really highlighted to us where, where, where significant change can be made from a volumetric material consumption standpoint. And when you look at the built environment and you consider what goes into creating products in the built environment, it's very resource intensive. A comparison. For example, if we look at timber construction versus using concrete and buildings, you know one that often is cited in a. Australia is 25 King Street, which is the Lend Lease, and Oricon building in Brisbane. Designing this particular building as a mass timber construction, sustainably sourced mass timber important. It's really looking at the comparison between timber and concrete. The the studies that were shown in the design. This building was that the the building could reduce carbon over the six year life of the product of of the build. Thing by about 74% versus a traditional reinforced concrete design. So it's really it's interesting when you look at how can we, what are the materials we're using and how can those materials be used more efficiently when there are so many materials being used in the building. Environment. So it's really about volume. And by the way, you know the investments that go into the built environment was were two big reasons as to why we chose that, that sector and by no means we're we're not experts and I'll, I'll, you know, put my hand on my heart. And say I'm not an expert in the built environment, there are many great organisations doing exceedingly, exceedingly inspiring work. GBC, a Property Council Australia infrastructure, Infrastructure, Sustainability Council. We're here to. Support and act as sort of a I guess a a supporting mechanism. How can we engage and? And provide perhaps a different perspective to those organisations who are doing good. Work in this space. And we saw a lot of great examples in Europe. We had last year we had the privilege of working, hosting a a study tour which was centred around the world Circular Economy Forum, which was held in Helsinki. But we were able to include a, A, a full week, a very busy, dedicated week of meetings and site visits. Across the Netherlands and we also went to Paul Clement, to our chief Sustainability Advisor and Co founder. We also went to Sweden and some great examples there around design for disassembly. So this is where buildings are purposely designed, literally to be unbolted. At end of life so that they can be reused in that same structure but in another location, perhaps with some modifications. But one example was from Utrecht, which is a building called the Greenhouse.

Speaker

Sure. Uh-huh.

Nicole Garofano

In this case, what happened was the local municipality designed an area, had a master plan for an area, but there was one space that wouldn't. They didn't have a plan for it for the next 10 to 15 years it would it. You had a long term plan, but in the meantime they said let's see if we can get something utilizing this space. So they had a competition. To hope to come up with ideas of designing a building that could be disassembled within 11:50. And literally moved to another location within the city. And now what they have is a fantastically beautiful building. As I say, it's called the greenhouse in Utrecht. You can Google it. It's a wonderful space. It's got glass. It has steel that can all be disassembled. It's a. Cafe. It's meeting rooms. It's it's a really lovely space. How does this link to decarbonization? They've invested the carbon in the materials in that design that can be unbolted and reused in their current state at their highest value in another location. So reducing virgin materials also reduces virgin emissions. Another example that crosses over between transport, public transport, electric vehicles and housing is from the city of Gothenburg, which is in Sweden. There happens to be that Volvo buses are are located as their head office in Gothenburg, but the city was looking to electrify their bus. And and so with this, they partnered with Volvo and a number of other stakeholders did a small pilot. But now what they've done is is converting their bus fleet about 75% of their fleet 5. 100 odd buses. To electrification. Now that's great. You know, there's so many benefits to that for public transport, but the batteries and buses. That lasts as long as in vehicles. They might last three to five years, and So what they said was, well, let's think about what we can do with those batteries at the end of that life, cause they might not work for buses, but they can work in a stationary cap. City. So they partnered with a housing project that was being designed in Gothenburg to reuse the batteries out of the buses in a stationary housing project that was a sustainably designed housing project to get another 10 years out of those batteries. And that at end of life, another company, North Volt batteries, which is another Swedish. Company is building capacity to recycle those lithium batteries to bring it back around again, so you know it's it's really about where are the virgin emissions being created and how can they be extended throughout the life of their product. There were many others. Bridge Bank, you know, when bridges are being considered for improvements or replacement, the bridge goes into like a Facebook marketplace, which is a government run, bridge, bank and other municipalities can look at those bridges and say, well, this might fit our area. It holds its structural integrity. Let's reuse it. In its current form, again, perhaps with a few modifications, so so many great examples coming out of Europe, they've got lots of policy. You know, there's a there's a global alliance on buildings and construction, which is doing great work to head towards a near 0 emission and resilient building strategy by 20-30. And there's just so much that can be achieved by, you know, looking at what's already in situ and doing building reuse, adaptive reuse and and looking, you know, as a a really smart climate policy.

Nina Gbor

Well, that's really inspiring because it just shows what's possible. If only if. You know, organizations, businesses, governments are incentivized. You know who who? Who actually choose to want to have these circular models and that leads actually into the next question I wanted to ask, which is around policies because you mentioned a lot of policies coming out of Europe and So what policies and infrastructure? Do we need here in Australia that should be implemented to ensure the built environment is always designed for some of these operations that you described? The modularity, the adaptability, the disassembling instead of the conventional demolition and ending up in landfill.

Speaker

Oh.

Nicole Garofano

Yeah. Look, I think that we've, we've got some great examples to go by and there is a lot of work going into this space. Again, GCCA, property Council, Infrastructure Australia are doing some wonderful work on putting forward suggestions, but we also have a circular economy ministerial advisory group in Australia. This group is made-up. Of 15 experts across different fields, they've been meeting since February last year and they've just released an interim report. So if you haven't seen. That it's well worth a. Read. But what we see from that is that there are recommendations connecting. Circular approaches again to this overarching net zero decarbonisation strategy. We see that you know the the the suggestions from Europe are really around putting the language of disassembly, reusability, repairability. Into policy that is, for example, the eco design sustainable Products Regulation has just been approved about six or seven weeks ago in the European part. On it. This will come into play for products that might be supporting the built environment, not necessarily for buildings and construction. There is another set of. Policy for that. But what we see is a range of. Suggestions around how? To do this, a big driver is procurement. And so we've seen a couple of weeks ago, our friends at the Department of Environment released the environmentally sustainable procurement policy. So this is for all of Australian public service. So and guess what construction is first cab off the rank.

Speaker

Yes, we did.

Nina Gbor

Yes.

Nicole Garofano

So 1st of July.

Nina Gbor

Yeah.

Nicole Garofano

Any federal tender that's over 7 1/2. $1,000,000 needs to address the circularity principles which are clearly laid out in that policy, including using less material, designing for adaptability, using recycled content, considering products and. Service. So when we look at the amount of investment in procurement across all three levels of government, which in this country is estimated by the OCD to be about $384 billion, there's significant shift both in spend and materials and by the way reducing carbon. That can be that can be achieved by changing a procurement policy. We've also got the South Australian government in their procurement for infrastructure, their their number is higher $50 million and over, but with their policy, they're requiring organizational emission reductions for each of the contractors who are bidding for their work to really address their own, you know, scope 123. Mission. So procurement is a really big one. But we're also seeing that policies around, you know, prioritizing refurbishment over demolition is one that can be considered including benchmarks. Looking at how can we shift the the Australian Building code to incorporate some of these, because a lot of the decisions that are made.

Speaker

MHM.

Nicole Garofano

The National Construction code, of course, is the overarching. You know system.

Nina Gbor

Overarching body, yeah.

Nicole Garofano

Yeah, that, that, that enables the decisions that are made on a lot of construction. So how can? We. Incorporate the supporting these these products both in the design phase and infrastructure Australia is doing some work on that presently to reduce end of life because when we start talking end of life and we start talking recycling. I mean, we've kind of missed the boat. We've we've missed the opportunity and and the the ministerial advisory group under Minister Plibersek is very much on board with, you know, changing that language and really bringing that design conversation to the fore.

Nina Gbor

Yeah, she is. Sorry. I'm gonna have to. We're gonna have to move to audience questions. We can talk about this for ages, and I have so many more questions to ask you, but it's only fair that we allow the audience to.

Speaker

Yeah.

Nicole Garofano

Yeah.

Nina Gbor

Get their question?

Nicole Garofano

Absolutely. Thank you.

Nina Gbor

So, well, thank you. You've made a lot very clear so. I'm just going to have a look at the.

Nicole Garofano

I'll let you decide.

Nina Gbor

Yeah. Well, I mean you, yeah, we've, we've, we've, we've talked a lot. So you go ahead and pick something that you feel you'd like to discuss. You'd like to answer if there is one. You know, there's one here. Should we be focusing firstly on reducing, reusing then recycling?

Nicole Garofano

That's a great question to you. Yes. Yeah, I mean that, that's the simple thing that that many of us have have grown up with over the years and reduced reuse. Recycle is that's the order of the hierarchy. Absolutely. And and in recent years, that has been expanded again. Professor Kramer from the Netherlands shared with us her ladder of circularity. Which starts with refuse. Thing and you know and and in the traditional waste hierarchy that the European Commission has been using for, you know, since the 1980s, prevention was the first one on their list. So prevention, refusal, asking the questions, do we actually need to use, do we actually need this item this good? Building car, textiles. Packaging. If we need it, do we need to use something brand new? Can we look at something else? If we need to use if we need to produce it, can we design? It so that it. Is far more you know, it's designed for longevity, designed for durability, repairability. So absolutely, David, that that's spot on the money. That is exactly the order. Recycling is number 9 on that list of 10 by the way. So there are many other. Options that we can look to before we get to the cycling and we should be designing products with that in mind.

Nina Gbor

So Speaking of the list of 10, there's a question here. What were those five business models? Again, this is a question.

Nicole Garofano

Yes, good. Good question. Yeah. So the first one is circular supplies and if you Google Accenture or the OCD and do circular business models, that should come up for you. But circular supplies is the first one product as a service is the next one product as a service is kind of like leasing. But what it does in the circular economy space that we now sit in is. That the products that. Are actually designed to be used as a service. Are designed as such, so they're designed to be far more. What's the word? You know, have have their stronger, they can easily be repaired. They have more rigor in their design and So what you find is that instead of having maybe a 12 month or a three-year lease, actually the subscription or the lease can go for five or ten years because during that time the product is very well maintained and it is designed to live. That long so product as a service is is one that's coming to the fore in different models in our sort of modern interpretation of circular economy. So circular supply is product as a service product life extension. By designing for longer life, getting more value sharing platforms and so looking at, you know everything from vehicles to clothing to buildings, platforms that can enable sharing and then resource recovery, which is where recycling tends to fit the circular supplies product as a service. Product Life extension, sharing platforms, resource recovery.

Nina Gbor

Sure. OK. And there's a question here about repair, same repair is so expensive in Australia. What to do? What can we do to overcome it?

Nicole Garofano

Repair is such an important component of a viable transition to a circular economy, and I had the absolute privilege of having some time with Professor Leanne Wiseman from Griffith University earlier this week and we were talking about the right to repair. And of course, the Productivity Commission came out with a report a couple of years ago on the right to repair and you know, we were discussing what's been able to be adopted. There has been, I think, only one or two of the recommendations that have been adopted to date, which is a shame. But there's the simple the simple. Act of choosing to hold on to products for 12 months longer than what you might have done. So if you if you get a phone, do you need to have a new phone every year? Or can you extend the life of that? Phone to have for two years even just getting we all did that. If everybody did that, then the amount of raw materials that we're extracting would be reduced significantly. But to the question how do we encourage that when it's so expensive? There are policies, for example around can we incorporate a tax deduction? That is, that is an attractive tax deduction for repairing products. So, you know, say, if a product might be $200.00 to buy new IT, there's a fault to it. It might cost you, I don't know. $120.00 to fix it and you think? Ohh God $120.00 to fix it, why don't I just go and buy a new one? But if you can get $120.00 or even $100 back on a tax return because you've chosen to repair at a reputable repair organization, that might shift how people start to see. Pair. So that's one solution, the other. The other thing around repair is, you know, looking at what is the warranty period of products and Leanne was sharing with me that the question of warranty periods is perhaps too short if the warranty period was longer. And product manufacturers will required to support products for a longer period of time as a policy, then that might bring the repair conversation into a different light as well. So there's a few suggestions that Leanne and and those that very much sit in that right to repair movement are working on very heavily.

Nina Gbor

OK. You mentioned the recycling of lithium batteries in Europe. And there's a question here about what progress is being made here in Australia on battery recycling and reuse, you know for.

Speaker

Hmm.

Nicole Garofano

Yeah. Thanks. Thanks, Peter. I think there's there's quite a bit of attention on batteries in Australia. Ed Hughes minister Ed Husic has has has taken to batteries as one of his focus areas for the future made in Australia program. There are a couple of of battery recyclers in Australia but the. The challenge is to what degree do we recycle the batteries here? Like to what sort of granular level can we take those? Valuable resources and reprocess them here we can't get down to. Well, there there are. There is limited capacity to be able to recycle in the full sense of the word in Australia and not to say that we can't do it here. The example that I mentioned earlier around North Fault, which is the Swedish based. Company, they've proven that they can recycle a battery, including everything the the the plastic that encompasses the the battery itself, all the. Components. They've proven it can be done, so there's nothing to say that we can't do that here. The question is, what's the level of interest for investment in these types of technologies and how do? We build this. Scale to enable that here and I think there's enough attention on it at the moment to have some. Some good faith in in what will come with that, let's say within the next sort of five to. 10. Years, but it it I would say that it's although there are some companies doing it here we we've got we could we could do. What more?

Nina Gbor

We absolutely can. Perhaps I don't know. Having investment long term investments in infrastructure and education. So I'm going to let's dial it right back and go right back to basics. There's a question here with a lot of votes asking the difference between the circular economy. And environmentally sustainable economy from an application point of view.

Nicole Garofano

So one thing that I learned I did a bit of we we have a procurement working group and in order for myself to be a little bit again I'm I'm not a procurement expert, but in order for myself to be a little bit more aware when I started this role I I dove into what's the difference between circular procurement and sustainable procurement. Just to me, they kind of sound like they sounded like the same thing. And it kind of relates to this question. So what what we're seeing here is through the research that I did is again it comes back to the decarbonisation question. Circular procurement is a tool to address sustainable development. So sustainable development is the is the sort of North star that everybody's working towards. We've got our SDG's, of which the circular economy contribute a lot. And so I guess it it just comes back to what is the environmental stable economy? I guess the environmentally sustainable economy. Could be similar. I think if we're talking about what's a sustainable economy, what's sustainable development in the economy? The difference between that and circular economy in the way that perhaps the Ellen MacArthur Foundation and others think about it, this tends to be more of a focus on material flows and how that works. Within the circular economy, whereas sustainable development of course incorporates all you know, social, economic. And and environmental now if you have been, have you, if you've become familiar with donate economics and this is Kate Raworth's theories on circularity and and encompassing in that that circle Kate Raworth theory very much encompasses. The benefits to social the the social benefits of circular. Reality, and more recently, there's been the question of how do we create a just a just transition to circularity and then by extension to achieve sustainable development. So again, in summary comparing between circular economy and environmental sustainable economy, the environmental part of the. Sustainability 1 feeds the other one supports the other, but more broadly, we're all working towards sustainable development.

Speaker

OK.

Nina Gbor

So sustainable development is the overarching. Gold, whereas the circular economy sits within that overarching goal.

Nicole Garofano

Again, circular circular practices, so you know simple things. Taking it back to your comment, Nina, simple things. If you're trading products on Facebook marketplace, keeping them in their current form, you're participating in the circular economy because you're reusing.

Speaker

MHM.

Nicole Garofano

Product with its highest value. If you are using a like a go get car sharing service you are participating in the circular economy because you're reusing and and using a sharing platform model, so the simple actions that one can take on a daily basis, you're.

Nina Gbor

Sure.

Nicole Garofano

You're likely already participating in in a circular economy that also supports reduction of environmental impacts.

Nina Gbor

Sure, sure. So. You mentioned transitioning in just ways and I and I'm I really like that because I am a fan of. Of the aspect of deep growth that is about drastically scaling back material and resource use in the first place. And and then practicing the circular principles and sustainability goals which leads them to this really interesting question from Shannon that says should we stop the UN double talk of sustainable development and talk about deep growth to reduce the plague of people on the planet to an eternally. Sustainable level and each bioregion of our nation as achieved by Indigenous Australians for over 65,000 years.

Nicole Garofano

Great question, Sean. Look, I don't know if we stopped the talk of sustainable development. I feel like we probably need to get a little bit more serious about how we can achieve the SDG goals because personally, I think the SDG's are good as goals. And and the and the. The tactics that sit with within them I think are good. I think the question of deep growth is a scary. One it it in, it sort of incites well, we have to stop all of what we're doing now and you know some may say yes, but we are we are a very much more expanded population globally. I mean we've got 8 billion people on the planet. There's the question around. You know, how do we is there too many people on the planet? You know that that's a question that also comes into this discussion. I think what we have to. Realize is that. The practices practices of Indigenous Australians, we absolutely need to tie in more to practices of Indigenous Australians and other indigenous peoples across the planet, but the question is how do we do this in a way that can provide us? Will connect us with our modern lifestyle. But pairing back, perhaps our modern lifestyles and really being a little bit more. Conscious about each decision that we make as individuals and as organizations about how what we're doing, what, how we're using products, why we're using products in the way we are and how can we do this in a way that not only reduces the impact on the planet but also. Enables and encourages. Is. A society that is kind to one another and you know, is a socially just society, probably. I'm probably sounding like a, you know, going on to the we need World Peace. Yes. But but I think that it's it comes down to us as individuals. In the first instance.

Speaker

Sure.

Nicole Garofano

To question everything that we do, from from a sustainability perspective, if everyone did that, I don't know that we would have to do a degrowth discussion because we would all be living within our own limits.

Nina Gbor

OK, So what do you think this is? A question from Bernie. What do you think about Japan capturing CO2 for return to Australia to be combined with green hydrogen to make green methane? Is there any way at all that this makes sense? Should notions like this and hydrogen from brown coal be censored?

Nicole Garofano

Wow, that's that's really fascinating, Bernie. I don't think I, I wouldn't say that I I know much about any of those facts that you've raised there. I didn't know that Japan was talking about capturing CO2 to returning to Australia. Green hydrogen to make green methane look, I'm not an expert at all on on the conversation around hydrogen it is. It is an area that I'd like to learn a lot more of, particularly with the governments investment into hydrogen in the in the budget. What I do know what I personally observed with hydrogen. Is there a specific? Uses for hydrogen. It's. It's not gonna be something that everybody uses. I I I remember having a conversation with somebody once about that hydrogen is useful for long range transport, for example. So with our distances in Australia it might be something that we could consider there. But the question comes to how is the hydrogen being made? If we're having to use? Traditional fossil fuel based power in order to make the hydrogen well, I guess you have to question why do we do. That when we. Could go. You know easily, just reduce the power use to create the hydrogen and instead go to electrification. But if we're using renewable energy to create the hydrogen, then that's a different discussion. But that's probably all I could say about that. Bernie, I'm sorry I don't have a a full answer for you.

Nina Gbor

It's OK. The circuit economy, I feel like is still growing and developing and being formed in many areas. So I think it's impossible no matter how much of an expert you are because it's still a relatively new sector, it's it's hard to have all the answers that particularly in every.

Nicole Garofano

Yes, absolutely.

Nina Gbor

Every sector, every aspect of it. So.

Nicole Garofano

Yeah, I mean I I do my best. I think in this role I have lots of conversations of lots of different sectors. I feel very privileged to do that. But there's always going to be gaps and I feel like, you know, conversations like this, Bernie, I might have to go and do some research myself now and and hear more about this capturing. Of CO2. I think I think that's that's part of this journey. Nobody knows everything and I I think anyone that does can claim that is kind of maybe they're missing some stuff. But and I think part of the transition, a really important part of the transition is sharing the knowledge.

Nina Gbor

No.

Nicole Garofano

And widely, and I think that's what the ice hub is here to do, I mean that that's my role speaking to all of you today. And and many other platforms that I have the honor to contribute to, how can we do that better? And I think, you know, hearing from all of you join our portal is one way to get some of these other answers perhaps connected. Or answered because yeah knowledge is power as we know and it can be used in either way. So let's use it.

Speaker

Absolutely.

Nicole Garofano

For the betterment of.

Nina Gbor

Absolutely. I think there's such great opportunity in that in in these questions is. Looking for answers ourselves because sometimes we don't have an answer. You know, we've never been. Humanity has never been in a place where consumption has been at such peak levels, right? So we don't have a precedent to go by. So when there's a question, I think if we're able, it's up to us.

Speaker

Absolutely.

Nina Gbor

To try and. Figure out solutions whether it's looking for. Best practice in other countries or finding solutions right here that are homegrown because there are a lot of solutions here in Australia, there are organizations that have created solutions. We just need to support them, fund them, nurture these industries and I I believe I strongly believe that we can have. Circular strong circular systems here in Australia, you know, certainly easier to manage than you know other countries with perhaps bigger populations and more complex. Problems and and systems that have been around for for much longer than we've been in existence.

Nicole Garofano

Yeah.

Speaker

Yeah.

Nicole Garofano

I think the reality is, you know, people often say, will we ever get to 100% circularity? I I don't know that we ever will. I think going back to the earlier question around indigenous cultures and 65,000 years ago, the way that that indigenous peoples lived with the land, you know as part of country as part of NATO. There is something that we can aspire to in in, in ways that we can, in our modern interpretation, but I don't. Well, I don't think we could ever be 100% certain. There will always be products that will need to be like hazardous products, etcetera, that that will need to be managed differently. But we do a pretty darn good job.

Nina Gbor

Sure.

Speaker

Now.

Nina Gbor

Sure.

Nicole Garofano

Of making decisions daily that we can. And move towards that, we just need to do it quicker, that's all.

Nina Gbor

Sure. Well, we're going to have to round up, Nicole. I just want to thank you so much for sharing your knowledge here with us today. Just very quickly, less than a minute. Can you talk about what planet? You know what, where people can go to learn more about planet art and some of the activities and. Campaigns that you have for. The rest of the year.

Nicole Garofano

Yes, thank you. Awesome. So we have so go to the website acehub.org dot AU that's our that's our knowledge hub, our website. We also have a portal which is portal.acehub.org dot AU and the portal has 2000 plus members. So lots of people on there who are, you know either learning. Or have good knowledge on circularity. So get connected there and we've got a couple of programs that we're going to be launching this year. So keep an eye out, get registered with the portal and our newsletter to keep up to date. There's more to say on that, probably in the next month, two months. Time and we'll have a conference as well later at the end of this year. So we'll be releasing more information on that within the next six weeks or so as well. So lots to look forward to and we're pretty excited and and feel very privileged to be part of today's discussion. And part of this ecosystem where we need to create the change.

Nina Gbor

Absolutely. So a big thank you to everyone who has joined us today and we very much appreciate your patience. With all the. Technical issues. It is what it is. And so our next webinar is unparliamentary and that's on Tuesday, May 28th with veteran political journalist and columnist for the Saturday paper and the new Daily Paul Bonjourno. The webinar will unpack the big political and policy issues, so visit our website Australia Institute. Dot org dot AU to register OK, I think that's a wrap. Nicole, thank you so very much for being with us today. It was such a pleasure to have you. And I think that's it. Thank you so much.

Nicole Garofano

Thank you, Nina. Right, thank you. And thanks everyone for joining. Thanks for your questions.

Nina Gbor

Fantastic. Thank you. Bye bye.

Nicole Garofano

And have a great day.

Speaker

Oh.